tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1530741222852255049.post2117287344821681611..comments2023-07-03T08:21:29.115-07:00Comments on Theology in Worship: CelebrationJonathan Powershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04156698508552110185noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1530741222852255049.post-55146114691700251562011-05-03T18:20:20.524-07:002011-05-03T18:20:20.524-07:00Jeff - Thanks so much for your thoughtful comment....Jeff - Thanks so much for your thoughtful comment. I'd say there are degrees of celebration. Or at least, there are certain things that inform celebration and inform what we bring into our celebration. For instance, a service on Good Friday is a celebration, but in a different sense than a service on Easter. (Does that make sense?) <br /><br />Now, that example may not have anything to do with Osama bin Laden, (and in no way whatsoever do I equate his death with Christ's), but I do think we celebrate this victory with a real sense of lament accompanying it. If we do not, I believe we miss out on something. I think this is part of what has been troubling me these past few days. The "joy and jubilation" you speak of has been rampant for many, but I have found my sense of celebration has an element of lament to it. <br /><br />I'm still trying to figure out what God is teaching me and showing me through this. Thanks, Jeff, for being another guiding voice.Jonathan Powershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04156698508552110185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1530741222852255049.post-17205543175485941652011-05-03T12:56:12.772-07:002011-05-03T12:56:12.772-07:00Are there degrees of celebration? Put differently,...Are there degrees of celebration? Put differently, shouldn't President Obama be pleased that the order was executed effectively and the plan was achieved? On some level, this could be called a celebration, but perhaps not in the way that many use the term. On the other hand, shouting for joy and jubilation is taking such a celebration to another level that I find troubling, as you have voiced here, Jonathan. Does that make sense?Jeff Rudyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15863699058853219072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1530741222852255049.post-12562233970831561882011-05-03T07:18:37.914-07:002011-05-03T07:18:37.914-07:00Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Robin. I can und...Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Robin. I can understand and have considered thoughts from your perspective. However, I believe there is an important tension on this issue that must be held. <br /><br />You say, "If you found cancer in your body, you would rejoice when it was removed for good." This is true. Yet, when it comes at the cost of something living, (for example, take a mastectomy for the removal of breast cancer), though there is rejoicing at the removal, there is also grief at the cost. <br /><br />You also say, "Didn't Israel rejoice before God many times - and didn't God instruct them to - when they wiped out their enemies?" Certainly! There is much biblical evidence to support this. However, I don't believe God fully rejoiced in having to completely destroy part of his creation, even though it was for divinely appointed purposes. <br /><br />If you were to ask me a week ago, a year ago, or ten years ago if I thought the world would be better with Osama bin Laden dead, I would have said yes. In fact, I can't say I disagree with that even now. But I also refuse to let my heart or mind be blinded by hatred and vengeance. I cannot overlook the fact that he was a child of God just as any one else is. Yet, he was a person, as you say, "antithetical to Christianity," and my heart grieves for that. I celebrate this justice, but I do not celebrate that a man has been fully separated from God. <br /><br />Call me naive, but I refuse to not struggle with this. I believe God is teaching me important things about His heart for humanity, and what it means for my own actions in the world. (I cannot forget my neighbors who do not know Christ are destined to the same ultimate end as Osama bin Laden.) There is a formative aspect to this struggle, and it is one I did not expect to be having right now. <br /><br />Thank you for spurring this conversation, Robin! Blessings!Jonathan Powershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04156698508552110185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1530741222852255049.post-38176423659998861972011-05-03T06:47:08.913-07:002011-05-03T06:47:08.913-07:00Sorry, I can't disagree more. While I truly ad...Sorry, I can't disagree more. While I truly admire your desire to honor God in this time of difficulty, Osama bin Laden wasn't another man whose death brings "closure." He was as close to evil incarnate as we see on earth. He killed innocent men, women, and children to advance a perverted theological agenda that couldn't possibly be any more antithetical to Christianity. If you found a cancer in your body, you would rejoice when it was removed for good. OBL was a malignancy on humanity, and his death is a cause for rejoicing. If Hitler had been killed early, and you could know that his death saved millions of lives, wouldn't you rejoice before God? Didn't Israel rejoice before God many times - and didn't God instruct them to - when they wiped out their enemies? I appreciate your heart in this, but I think your mind needs to see it from a different perspective.Robin Chalkleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09286182130971865644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1530741222852255049.post-12613529531784174662011-05-03T06:03:25.326-07:002011-05-03T06:03:25.326-07:00humble. authentic. grace. beautiful.
thanks.humble. authentic. grace. beautiful. <br />thanks.Karl Krogerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08318473203031039240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1530741222852255049.post-36686579922600547822011-05-02T17:59:31.714-07:002011-05-02T17:59:31.714-07:00http://www.desiringgod.org/blog/posts/is-god-glad-...http://www.desiringgod.org/blog/posts/is-god-glad-osama-bin-ladens-deadAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1530741222852255049.post-85533461788497331712011-05-02T14:34:51.186-07:002011-05-02T14:34:51.186-07:00Thanks everyone! I really appreciate your comments...Thanks everyone! I really appreciate your comments. I hope you have also been able to read through some of the posts I recommended.Jonathan Powershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04156698508552110185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1530741222852255049.post-78581741620152491162011-05-02T14:12:43.435-07:002011-05-02T14:12:43.435-07:00Jonathan, I love how in your processing, you respo...Jonathan, I love how in your processing, you responded with worship seeking deeper relationship with God through this event. You've inspired me, thanks.Rob Stillhttp://www.robstill.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1530741222852255049.post-23912071347723295882011-05-02T11:20:30.935-07:002011-05-02T11:20:30.935-07:00Great post.
As a fellow (Catholic) Christian, I a...Great post. <br />As a fellow (Catholic) Christian, I also take comfort that we can turn to scripture in times like this. Isn't that such a great gift we have?<br /><br />It is interesting to think of what happened when he faced Jesus. Did he repent? Of course we are inclined to think that he is in hell, but there is a chance that he repented and was forgiven, which I know is a controversial statement. <br /><br />All in all, the reality of the situation is that our military was strategizing to kill bin Laden. And they did. Doesn't sit well, but that is war. What those brave soldiers did was heroic and changed history.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1530741222852255049.post-68316459767420435612011-05-02T10:33:03.590-07:002011-05-02T10:33:03.590-07:00Glad to see others feel as I do.Glad to see others feel as I do.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1530741222852255049.post-72211960632464848352011-05-02T10:02:20.060-07:002011-05-02T10:02:20.060-07:00Good article Jonathan! I have had similar feelings...Good article Jonathan! I have had similar feelings since hearing the news last night...none of which have been joy. I feel more broken for the ways in which we embrace and endorse violence as a way of life rather than the kingdom-life of God. Thanks for sharing!steve lamottehttp://www.stevelamotte.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1530741222852255049.post-59997765442115775642011-05-02T06:06:52.576-07:002011-05-02T06:06:52.576-07:00For further reading on this topic by people who ha...For further reading on this topic by people who have been helping me process this, I recommend the following blog posts:<br /><br />http://tombakerguitar.blogspot.com/2011/05/contradictions-held-in-tension.html<br /><br />http://sblosser.wordpress.com/2011/05/02/reacting-to-osama-bin-ladens-death/<br /><br />http://www.thepangeablog.com/2011/05/01/mourning-the-death-of-osama-bin-laden…-and-the-loss-of-every-other-life/Jonathan Powershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04156698508552110185noreply@blogger.com